November 4, 2009
Taped teachers: Putnam parents pleased with suspensions
CHARLESTON, W.Va.-- The Tuesday suspension of a Putnam County kindergarten teacher and an aide in connection with secret recordings where they are allegedly heard yelling at students, is a step in the right direction, but months late, the mother of one of the students said.
"It was downright verbal abuse, harassment and intimidation," Kathy Crouse said Wednesday. "If a parent had been caught, their kids would have been taken away. Why they continued to work [in the county's school system] for another month just blows my mind."
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Inviting whatever criticism forthcoming, I would suggest the same about some parents and their kids. They do not belong in a public system. But, those politicians who set the rules really believe that everyone can learn (in public). I do not disagree with CAN. I do suggest that without the desire to learn the teaching thing is not going to be effective. I do support home schooling (forced) if the kid is not there to learn but to exercise the right/obligation to disrupt
I have gotten into dark/forbidden area, but the education system is too expensive to allow a group of knuckleheads, old and young, to waste the opportunity for all.
With slowdown in economy, some people may become familiar as to what is currently going on in the system and not what they remember happened 10+ years back. Most systems will welcome volunteers as their budgets have been cut.
But she's not the only entry level professional that works extra hours at night as others do as well. As for summer time work, the majority is done to add education which adds compensation down the line thus it is not done for free.
I am not saying that some teachers don't put in extra hours but by and large, the average is about 1400 hours, thus all teachers hourly wage average is inline with that of other professionals. Add the rest of the benefits package and West Virginia teachers have a very fair compensation package.
We also hear verbal excerpts from the tape. I assume these are from the parent’s interpretation and not neutral, experienced investigators. There are no statements of tonal impact. As noted below, we also only hear one side. What does the rest of the tape have on it?
I have seen many parents stand up and defend their children, until tapes are produced. In board meetings, special sessions are held; it is always the parents that come out apologizing. Not to say the other way may occur, I just have not seen it.
I will stand for the teachers until more evidence (or at least substantial evidence) is presented. Are they not innocent until proven guilty.
Is the suggeestion that education would be improved if run by the federal govt v currently state run system? I have never heard of that as a pathway to improve public education. Would you please elaborate where you are going in your request and how that would improve public education?
Who prepares the test at what cost? When is it administered? Would it be biased toward the NE, SE, West, NW etc. The natl test for students was biased toward northern city students. Farm/rural kids did not use the same vernacular and thus scored lower. Race biased? Sex biased?
Point being a test does not eliminate the problem
You assume the work day is that time spent at the office. From personal experience, that is not an accurate assessment of the real world that I lived in.
Fresh out of college, I had a degree in accounting and my wife had a degree in education. I worked 8 hrs per day for worlds largest public accounting firm. At the end of the day, I went home and spent personal time.
My wife as a teacher spent about 7.25 hrs per day at school. After diner, she began preparing/planning for the next day in the classroom. She made lesson plans and IEP for the students. She prepared tests and graded tests. Her education related day ended after I had retired for the evening.
Aa, I would offer to you that this is more of the day in a young teacher's life, and it is more in keeping than the perception that the teacher only works while in the classroom. Add recert requirement in summer
The entry salary is not low when you compare it in context. An average accountant, nurse or other professional all make in the $15 to $18 hour range right out of college. A teacher, on the other hand (especially in counties with kickers) makes at least that and in some cases tops $20 an hour.
The difference being of course that most professions work 2000 plus hours whereas teachers only work about 1400 hours.
Teachers can cry all they want about compensation but in truth, their total benefits package is as good if not better then most professionals starting out.
The teeth to higher salary is the missing element. Actually the entry salary is on the low side, but after several years of step increases and advanced degrees, the salary becomes acceptable. Will never become wealthy nor starve if one can make it thru the first several years.
Make no mistake though; TOC is an agent of the teachers union, thus his appearance on this board and his insistence that the problem is the fault of the students, calling them 'out of control.'
If a child is out of control in the school system with the zero tolerance policies that abound, all the teacher has to do is send them to the office, not scream, berate and deny restroom privileges.
As such, it seems to me that even if ‘unruly’ kids are the problem, both the teacher and the aid are wrong for not addressing the problem correctly.
But you won't see One Citizen admit that simple fact as he is an agent for the union.
the worst thing any of us can do for our country is to keep making comments that divide us. we look at groups like the shiites, sunnis and think they're radical extremists. you know, even those 'radical extremists' started somewhere. mark my words, if we don't stop this 'us vs. them' mentality, we'll turn into the same thing... a bunch of crazy people shooting each other and blowing each other up.
STOP IT PLEASE. america used to be civil. it'd be nice for it to be that way once again... before it's too late.
The problem is not restricted to Putnam kindergarten. It is throughout the country. I have two 5th grade grands in different counties. 1st kid school has ongoing disruption by one group calling other group names. Teacher will not address the problem. Ditto Principal
2nd kid school Regular teacher out with preg. Certified and experienced sub has totally no control. Kid(s) throwing books and desks. Sub goes to Principal, but is told to get control over class, the class was doing same but not same volume with regular teacher.
These kids are all told of their rights at home. Report teacher action to parent???
Secondly, the real blame for this lies squarely with the parents who turned their children over to the government in the first place.
This is yet another example of how sending a child to a government school is indeed a form of child abuse.
Why no reprimand for the school principal? Well, like most government school principals, this one probably had no idea what was occurring at this school. Or, if known, chose simply to ignore it as it is far easier to deny the existence of serious problem than to deal with it. Government principals are too focused on their own retirement to risk exposing anything this egregious at their own schools.
This is a public school system, everyone employed in our school system is a public servant and should have no expectation of privacy when interacting with minor children. When the next school board election rolls around in your town, please take some time to consider that this might be the most important vote that you cast. There should be mandatory state boards of licensure exams for teachers. We have almost zero accountability from the very people that should care about children more than anyone-or they should just resign.
BTW, Is there any proof that the two teachers were members of any union? NO.
Last I checked, Putnam County had a far lower union membership than most other districts, primarily because it pays its teachers so well. And that's too bad, because its likely that had the teachers belonged to a real union, the principal would have more likely been persuaded let the parent have access to the classroom or otherwise suspended the kid.
BTW if union lawyers were involved, then it is highly unlikely that reps would have made any statement to the Daily Mail until after this whole deal was resolved, especially since the parent is threatening a lawsuit.
How many legislatures are teachers themselves?
Truth is, no teacher should hold a positon in the legislature as it's against state law for state employees to also be a member of the legislature. Teachers skate by because they claim to be county employees which everyone knows is a farce considering their benefits and pay come from the state.
Someone ask what the response of the teachers union would be. This is it. Liberal agents of unions, including both that represent teachers (often under the disguise of what they believe to be a clever alias) post on message boards just like these the liberal message of the media.
They mass email duly elected representatives with their liberal message and do everything they can to sway the public opinion of unfit teachers like the two in Buffalo.
Actions like this are the primary reason that union membership is down to 7% of workers, and if you take away liberals organizations like SEIU and teachers unions, that number would be half of what it is.
In my father’s time, from the 40's to the late 70's, the union would have weeded out unfit members like this long before such offensive actions were allowed to take place and saved the company the heartache.
AARONS it is legal to sell them,it is illegal to record sound and video without prior consent.i don't know how it is now,but as i video tape suspected insurance scams,we could video or record sounds,but not both on the same tape,if it make sense to you.
On the other hand, most public school principals will grant any concerned parent access to observe classroom behavior at any time on a moment's notice. And most teachers welcome them. In Putnam county, it appears to be primarily the principal whose at fault for not expelling the kids
Note that the parents of kids who are toughest to teach due to anti-social behavior are usually those least likely to actually care about what goes on in the classroom, beyond shifting blame onto teachers for their kids being completely out of control
By the way, teacher's unions have nothing to do with the legality of classroom cameras, beyond advocating to apply the law.
Same analogy as 'guns don't kill people, people kill people'.
Secret recording is also a violation of federal law.
I'm confused. If secret recording is against federal law, why is Sam's Club, CostCo and practically all of the major discount chains selling the equipment that is clearly used for this illegal activity?
and, everyone darn well knows it all goes back to politics and elections. politicians that endorse restrictions on teachers have a much smaller chance of getting elected. the teachers and their unions in this state are almost like the mob.
Let's use this case to launch an effort to get video cameras (picture AND sound) in the classroom. Sam's Club, CostCo and practically all of the major discount chains sell some version of a security system with internet access. Surely such a system in the classroom (at least 2 cameras, 1 aimed front to back and a 2d aimed back to front) would give a complete classroom view, provide a record of what happens, and could stream video to interested parents (secure, p/w protected connection).
I applaud this parent for handling things the way she did. She is obviously a good parent with her childs safety at the forefront. Wish more parents cared as much as this one.
And I agree there should be cameras in all classrooms with internet access. Daycares do it, so why cant the school systems? It would really solve a lot of problems with our public schools.
Since when is "secret taping" a violation of federal law? In WV I can "secretly tape" any phone conversation I have. I can set up a video camera at any spot on my property and tape any view I have from there. I can video tape in a public place whenever I want.
So "Way2Old," please reference for us the section of federal code that makes "secret taping" a federal crime.
And yes, I agree. Why not have video in a classroom. It's a public place where the employees are performing a public job on the public payroll with our children in their hands. By all means, tape their behavior. Let's use modern technology to keep our children safe.
Why? What occurred that would warrant this falling under federal jurisdiction?
The question I have is why isn't the Principal being punished as well. He is responsible for EVERYTHING that goes on in his school and it's not like this was an isolated incident. The man should receive some sort of punishment as well.
When I was in first grade at St. Alban's Central School in the 1950's I also had a teacher who behaved in a harsh and abusive way. She was insulting, sarcastic, she shook us by our shoulders "until our teeth rattled." (her words). Then she told us if we reported her behavior to our parents she would know and we would "really get it." Nice. I never told my mother and many of us suffered a terrible year. After 50 years, I still remember "Miss B" vividly.
I applaud the parents who did not give up when they noticed their children acting differently. I exhort the school administrators to have an open door policy so that parents are welcomed to observe the classroom. And finally, I hope those teachers' careers are over.
When I was in first grade at St. Alban's Central School in the 1950's I also had a teacher who behaved in a harsh and abusive way. She was insulting, sarcastic, she shook us by our shoulders "until our teeth rattled." (her words). Then she told us if we reported her behavior to our parents she would know and we would "really get it." Nice. I never told my mother and many of us suffered a terrible year. After 50 years, I still remember "Miss B" vividly.
I applaud the parents who did not give up when they noticed their children acting differently. I exhort the school administrators to have an open door policy so that parents are welcomed to observe the classroom. And finally, I hope those teachers' careers are over.
West Virginia
Recording a wire, oral, or electronic communication, or disclosing its contents, is not a violation of West Virginia law when the person recording is a party to the communication or has obtained consent from one of the parties, so long as the recording is not accompanied by a criminal or tortious intent. W. Va. Code § 62-1D-3.
Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of “oral communication,” W. Va. Code § 62-1D-2.
West Virginia
Recording a wire, oral, or electronic communication, or disclosing its contents, is not a violation of West Virginia law when the person recording is a party to the communication or has obtained consent from one of the parties, so long as the recording is not accompanied by a criminal or tortious intent. W. Va. Code § 62-1D-3.
Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of “oral communication,” W. Va. Code § 62-1D-2. In West Virginia Dept. of Health and Human Resources v. Wright, the state Supreme Court held that a woman whose children’s screams could be heard by neighbors nevertheless had a reasonable expectation of privacy in her home, for purposes of the wiretapping law. 453 S.E.2d 646 (1994).
Recor
If this article is accurate the principal, the teacher and the aid should be fired without delay.
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