WVU President Mike Garrison faces a Faculty Senate that voted 77-19 for his resignation. Students, alumni and donors have echoed that call over his handling of WVU's awarding a fake degree to Gov. Joe Manchin's daughter Heather Bresch, an executive at Mylan Pharmaceuticals, a big WVU donor.

On Tuesday, Garrison met with Gazette Editor James A. Haught, Editorial Page Editor Dawn Miller, City Editor Robert J. Byers and staff writers Veronica Nett and Davin White. Here are excerpts of the interview.

HAUGHT: Do you feel like Captain Bligh on the Bounty with half the crew mutinying?

GARRISON: No, it's not half the crew. I understand your analogy. I've had - Let's say this about the Faculty Senate's vote yesterday. I have made it probably my top priority to reach out to the senate and not just the senate, to all faculty, since I've come in the door. There's no secret that a number of faculty on the senate would have preferred a different candidate last year for president. That was illustrated by the vote they took.

Despite that, I've made it a priority to reach out to faculty to make their issues my issues and worked very hard to implement a number of those, including pay raises in September that were the highest since 1993, including a day care center that has been studied for 30 years, including the dual careers program that didn't exist at WVU until we heard about it from faculty. It was something they wanted.

So to your question, no I don't feel that way. I have had a number of faculty, but also staff and alumni and students and citizens of the state who have gotten hold of me either via email or calls or just stopped by and said, "We understand this is a challenging issue. We understand that something needs to be done about it, but we do not believe that you should step down."

And so you have to take in all the constituency voices and listen to all of them.

HAUGHT: Do you think the uproar will subside?

GARRISON: You would hope so. But whether it does or not, there are other parts of the job that are very important. This is a very important issue. I've got a charge from the board, and I mean, the one thing everyone agrees on, the faculty, the board - which you try and find areas where they agree - is to implement the panel's report. That's what I'm charged with doing.

I hope that it subsides because we've got more work to do at the university.

I am regretful that a lot of the very good work we've done - and I've worked very hard and had a team that's worked very hard since coming in the door. I think if you ask anyone, we've worked as hard as any team that's been in that office to make some improvements, and we've got a long list of improvements. Unfortunately, this issue tends to overshadow some of those, at least right now.

We'd like to get back to talking about the good things we've done, but also the good things we're going to do and all the good things that are happening at the university. That's why I'm in town today, because we named the five Foundation Scholars down at the Capitol. And to a student, and they are remarkable students, far more eloquent than I was as a senior in high school - because they each get to speak - they all said how excited they were to join WVU. And so you've got to focus on those things without ignoring what our charge is from the board and what the panel recommended.

HAUGHT: Specifically about Bresch: I'm sure you know what degrees you have and you have copies of them.

GARRISON: I do.

HAUGHT: Why would she think she had a degree and not have it - not have a piece of parchment?

GARRISON: Some people do. Some people don't. I cannot speak as to why people don't.

HAUGHT: When she called you, she said she had the degree?

GARRISON: She believed she had the degree and she had arrangements made. And my response, as I told the panel and as I've told the media already, is, or was, that I have no way of knowing what arrangements she made in 1998. I have no way of knowing what she believes. I know that she believed it based upon what she said to me, and all I could do was hand it over to people who could try and make those determinations.

HAUGHT: Well, it seems incredible that someone would think they have a degree but never have any record of it of any sort.

GARRISON: I still have somewhere, I still have my undergraduate transcripts - I told this to the panel - I still have my undergraduate transcripts. I have my degrees. I'm proud of my degrees. I'm happy to be president of West Virginia University and I'm flattered by the opportunity -

HAUGHT: When you instructed the provost and [Chief of Staff Craig] Walker and the others to go take care of this, did they all assume that taking care of it meant providing the degree? I would think there must have been some kind of consensus in the front office.

GARRISON: There was no consensus. My instructions - in fact, my instruction - Craig Walker returned - Let me finish my previous thought because I didn't get to do that. I said I was very humbled to be president and I'm proud to be president. I'm more proud to have my degrees. ...

When you suggest that you're incredulous that someone could think they have a degree and not have proof, I tend to agree, but that's how I see the world. I can't speak for how other people see the world. That was the most important thing in my life, getting a degree from WVU. I understand what you're saying, but I just can't put myself in the mindset of someone else.

To answer your question - I'm not trying to avoid your question - when the call came in, Craig I believe now was the first person to return that call. I later spoke to her and she basically said the same thing. She believed she had a degree. Handing it off to them was simply get this to the people who can determine what it is. Does she have one or doesn't she have one? In retrospect, as I said last week, I would have done things differently. I would have instructed Craig unequivocally to document what she had said. I would have documented what she said to me, sent it directly down to B&E and said under no circumstances, do we want to know about this. Nobody on my immediate staff should be in the meetings. Those are mistakes. And I'm upset that they were made, and I take responsibility that they occurred. But under no circumstances did I at any point tell anyone directly or indirectly make sure she has this degree. If you've been around academics at all I think you realize pretty quickly as I have, they'll just tell you no, even if I had. And I didn't instruct Craig to do that or anybody else. And I certainly hadn't been asked by anybody like the governor.

HAUGHT: Did you have only one phone talk with her?

GARRISON: Yes.

HAUGHT: And Walker had nine talks with her?

GARRISON: That's what the records indicate. And my understanding now from reading the panel's report and talking to Craig was there were points where he had to get authority to release information or not release information and that sort of thing and the calls are not of long duration, but yeah, I mean we've never hidden from the fact that he had talks with her.

HAUGHT: In almost any organization, the top brass knows what the front office wants. It goes with intelligent people working in an intelligent operation. And it's very hard to imagine -

GARRISON: If there was an assumption made, and I don't mean to interrupt you, if there was an assumption made that I wanted a certain decision made, it's a faulty assumption. It's a faulty assumption.

NETT: Do you believe she earned the degree?

GARRISON: No, I believe she believes it, but no, I do not believe she earned the degree based on what the panel's report said. I mean you just read the panel's report and that's what it says. I have no way of knowing what the arrangements she thought she had were in 1998, but no, I don't believe she earned the degree looking at all the information that's contained in that report.

MILLER: Well, that short-circuits my next question because I was going to ask you about something you said on Saturday [May 3] where you were very wishy-washy. You went back and forth and you didn't say that outright on TV on Saturday.

GARRISON: Well, I think the question was maybe the exact question you asked. I can't remember; I've been asked a lot of questions. What I said was I believe she believes she earned the degree. I think she believes it to this day based on her public statements. I haven't discussed it with her. She certainly believed it in the conversation I had with her. Clearly that was not the case per the panel's report. I think, and maybe I wasn't clear enough, and if I wasn't in my TV interview, I apologize, but clearly if you read the panel's report, it says she did not earn the degree, and we support it. I guess maybe I'm jumping ahead and saying I support what the panel's report says. Clearly, she does not have the degree.

MILLER: When these guys came back to you and told you that the solution involved their making up data -

GARRISON: They didn't do that.

MILLER: They never told you they were making up data?

GARRISON: No. No.

MILLER: So at any time did you have a chance to say, "Hold on. Hold on. We don't make up data at WVU"?

GARRISON: No. No.

MILLER: You never had that opportunity?

GARRISON: I never had that opportunity. I didn't realize and understand until, and I told you this last week, I think, until I read parts of the panel report, exactly how this was analyzed, and it was analyzed in B&E [College of Business & Economics]. It wasn't analyzed by Craig or Alex [Macia] or anyone else. It was analyzed in B&E as the dean stated. He feels like he made the best decision with the information he had.

Clearly, it wasn't the best decision. Clearly, he could have gotten more information. I didn't realize until I read it in news reports that he hadn't tried to contact all former faculty. I teach one humble class at the university, but I take it very seriously and I keep all my records. I have them from five years back, and I would be very, very upset if the dean - it's a political science class - if the dean of arts and sciences did something with a student and didn't call me and say, well, was this student in class? So, I understand. I understand now that there should have been more done, and so no, I did not have a chance. The information that came to me as I stated to the committee was that at some point Craig said to me, you know, after determining it, B&E thinks, after looking at the records, she has a degree based on all they could find. They couldn't find everything. You know, ties go to the student, that sort of thing.

I said, guys, just make sure it's right and that was it. I, again, should have just kept the immediate staff out of there altogether, because it ultimately ended up in B&E, but I never had a chance to say, "Hold on, let me review." And maybe I should have. Maybe I should have said, "What did you base this on?" But then I would have been criticized for inserting myself in an academic matter as a non-academic president, and I was trying to avoid doing that.

MILLER: So let me get this straight. When they told you what the outcome was, you didn't get the details down to the level of knowing that they sat there, and after they decided what they were going to do, they had to make up grades and classes?

GARRISON: No, and it wasn't even they telling me. It wasn't they called me in with all the decision makers and said here's what we've determined. It was Craig saying here's what was reported back to us from B&E and from the provost.

MILLER: It has been a little difficult for some people to understand when they hear you say, "I take full responsibility; I'm responsible for this" - it's been a little difficult for people to see what that responsibility means because people did sit in a room and make up data, which is intrinsically wrong, whether your discipline is newspaper, poli-sci, biology ...

GARRISON: Agreed.

MILLER: So, a provost and a dean have lost their administrative posts, but there were other people in that room who did not jump up and say, "We don't do this." What happens to them?

GARRISON: Well, that's something we continue - I continue - that's my evaluation to make in coordination with the board and we continue to look at what those personnel decisions might be. And we're going to handle them as personnel decisions. We don't talk publicly about personnel decisions because they're personnel decisions. But again, there were some mistakes made. I wish those individuals weren't in the room. The report clearly states they were not decision makers. But they were in the room. In the room is bad enough. We shouldn't have had them in the room. I didn't direct them to be in the room. I didn't talk - but that's no excuse. I've got to take responsibility for their presence and any perceived influence they might have had. But again, without saying to anyone directly or indirectly, "Hey, we'd like to go a certain way," you've got at some point, you've got to assume that people are going to make the right decision without having to be told. But that doesn't always happen.

HAUGHT: Is it yet known who actually wrote the fake grades on a piece of paper?

GARRISON: I believe the panel's report indicates that that was done, or approved by the dean. That's my recollection only based on the panel's report.

HAUGHT: Does that mean the dean sat down with a pen and did it himself?

GARRISON: I don't know. I mean I really don't know. I didn't talk to the dean about it. It indicates in the panel's report the dean signed off on the -

HAUGHT: OK - so at this point, nobody knows who wrote in the grades, really?

GARRISON: It was done in B&E. I don't know the exact individual, whether it was the current head of the MBA program or the assistant dean for academics, who is Cy Logar, or whether it was Dean [Stephen] Sears himself, but it was somebody in B&E.

MILLER: Do you want to talk about the [Bob] Huggins contract?

GARRISON: Sure.

WVU President Mike Garrison faces a Faculty Senate that voted 77-19 for his resignation. Students, alumni and donors have echoed that call over his handling of WVU's awarding a fake degree to Gov. Joe Manchin's daughter Heather Bresch, an executive at Mylan Pharmaceuticals, a big WVU donor.

On Tuesday, Garrison met with Gazette Editor James A. Haught, Editorial Page Editor Dawn Miller, City Editor Robert J. Byers and staff writers Veronica Nett and Davin White. Here are excerpts of the interview.

HAUGHT: Do you feel like Captain Bligh on the Bounty with half the crew mutinying?

GARRISON: No, it's not half the crew. I understand your analogy. I've had - Let's say this about the Faculty Senate's vote yesterday. I have made it probably my top priority to reach out to the senate and not just the senate, to all faculty, since I've come in the door. There's no secret that a number of faculty on the senate would have preferred a different candidate last year for president. That was illustrated by the vote they took.

Despite that, I've made it a priority to reach out to faculty to make their issues my issues and worked very hard to implement a number of those, including pay raises in September that were the highest since 1993, including a day care center that has been studied for 30 years, including the dual careers program that didn't exist at WVU until we heard about it from faculty. It was something they wanted.

So to your question, no I don't feel that way. I have had a number of faculty, but also staff and alumni and students and citizens of the state who have gotten hold of me either via email or calls or just stopped by and said, "We understand this is a challenging issue. We understand that something needs to be done about it, but we do not believe that you should step down."

And so you have to take in all the constituency voices and listen to all of them.

HAUGHT: Do you think the uproar will subside?

GARRISON: You would hope so. But whether it does or not, there are other parts of the job that are very important. This is a very important issue. I've got a charge from the board, and I mean, the one thing everyone agrees on, the faculty, the board - which you try and find areas where they agree - is to implement the panel's report. That's what I'm charged with doing.

I hope that it subsides because we've got more work to do at the university.

I am regretful that a lot of the very good work we've done - and I've worked very hard and had a team that's worked very hard since coming in the door. I think if you ask anyone, we've worked as hard as any team that's been in that office to make some improvements, and we've got a long list of improvements. Unfortunately, this issue tends to overshadow some of those, at least right now.

We'd like to get back to talking about the good things we've done, but also the good things we're going to do and all the good things that are happening at the university. That's why I'm in town today, because we named the five Foundation Scholars down at the Capitol. And to a student, and they are remarkable students, far more eloquent than I was as a senior in high school - because they each get to speak - they all said how excited they were to join WVU. And so you've got to focus on those things without ignoring what our charge is from the board and what the panel recommended.

HAUGHT: Specifically about Bresch: I'm sure you know what degrees you have and you have copies of them.

GARRISON: I do.

HAUGHT: Why would she think she had a degree and not have it - not have a piece of parchment?

GARRISON: Some people do. Some people don't. I cannot speak as to why people don't.

HAUGHT: When she called you, she said she had the degree?

GARRISON: She believed she had the degree and she had arrangements made. And my response, as I told the panel and as I've told the media already, is, or was, that I have no way of knowing what arrangements she made in 1998. I have no way of knowing what she believes. I know that she believed it based upon what she said to me, and all I could do was hand it over to people who could try and make those determinations.

HAUGHT: Well, it seems incredible that someone would think they have a degree but never have any record of it of any sort.

GARRISON: I still have somewhere, I still have my undergraduate transcripts - I told this to the panel - I still have my undergraduate transcripts. I have my degrees. I'm proud of my degrees. I'm happy to be president of West Virginia University and I'm flattered by the opportunity -

HAUGHT: When you instructed the provost and [Chief of Staff Craig] Walker and the others to go take care of this, did they all assume that taking care of it meant providing the degree? I would think there must have been some kind of consensus in the front office.

GARRISON: There was no consensus. My instructions - in fact, my instruction - Craig Walker returned - Let me finish my previous thought because I didn't get to do that. I said I was very humbled to be president and I'm proud to be president. I'm more proud to have my degrees. ...

When you suggest that you're incredulous that someone could think they have a degree and not have proof, I tend to agree, but that's how I see the world. I can't speak for how other people see the world. That was the most important thing in my life, getting a degree from WVU. I understand what you're saying, but I just can't put myself in the mindset of someone else.

To answer your question - I'm not trying to avoid your question - when the call came in, Craig I believe now was the first person to return that call. I later spoke to her and she basically said the same thing. She believed she had a degree. Handing it off to them was simply get this to the people who can determine what it is. Does she have one or doesn't she have one? In retrospect, as I said last week, I would have done things differently. I would have instructed Craig unequivocally to document what she had said. I would have documented what she said to me, sent it directly down to B&E and said under no circumstances, do we want to know about this. Nobody on my immediate staff should be in the meetings. Those are mistakes. And I'm upset that they were made, and I take responsibility that they occurred. But under no circumstances did I at any point tell anyone directly or indirectly make sure she has this degree. If you've been around academics at all I think you realize pretty quickly as I have, they'll just tell you no, even if I had. And I didn't instruct Craig to do that or anybody else. And I certainly hadn't been asked by anybody like the governor.

HAUGHT: Did you have only one phone talk with her?

GARRISON: Yes.

HAUGHT: And Walker had nine talks with her?

GARRISON: That's what the records indicate. And my understanding now from reading the panel's report and talking to Craig was there were points where he had to get authority to release information or not release information and that sort of thing and the calls are not of long duration, but yeah, I mean we've never hidden from the fact that he had talks with her.

HAUGHT: In almost any organization, the top brass knows what the front office wants. It goes with intelligent people working in an intelligent operation. And it's very hard to imagine -

GARRISON: If there was an assumption made, and I don't mean to interrupt you, if there was an assumption made that I wanted a certain decision made, it's a faulty assumption. It's a faulty assumption.

NETT: Do you believe she earned the degree?

GARRISON: No, I believe she believes it, but no, I do not believe she earned the degree based on what the panel's report said. I mean you just read the panel's report and that's what it says. I have no way of knowing what the arrangements she thought she had were in 1998, but no, I don't believe she earned the degree looking at all the information that's contained in that report.

MILLER: Well, that short-circuits my next question because I was going to ask you about something you said on Saturday [May 3] where you were very wishy-washy. You went back and forth and you didn't say that outright on TV on Saturday.

GARRISON: Well, I think the question was maybe the exact question you asked. I can't remember; I've been asked a lot of questions. What I said was I believe she believes she earned the degree. I think she believes it to this day based on her public statements. I haven't discussed it with her. She certainly believed it in the conversation I had with her. Clearly that was not the case per the panel's report. I think, and maybe I wasn't clear enough, and if I wasn't in my TV interview, I apologize, but clearly if you read the panel's report, it says she did not earn the degree, and we support it. I guess maybe I'm jumping ahead and saying I support what the panel's report says. Clearly, she does not have the degree.

MILLER: When these guys came back to you and told you that the solution involved their making up data -

GARRISON: They didn't do that.

MILLER: They never told you they were making up data?

GARRISON: No. No.

MILLER: So at any time did you have a chance to say, "Hold on. Hold on. We don't make up data at WVU"?

GARRISON: No. No.

MILLER: You never had that opportunity?

GARRISON: I never had that opportunity. I didn't realize and understand until, and I told you this last week, I think, until I read parts of the panel report, exactly how this was analyzed, and it was analyzed in B&E [College of Business & Economics]. It wasn't analyzed by Craig or Alex [Macia] or anyone else. It was analyzed in B&E as the dean stated. He feels like he made the best decision with the information he had.

Clearly, it wasn't the best decision. Clearly, he could have gotten more information. I didn't realize until I read it in news reports that he hadn't tried to contact all former faculty. I teach one humble class at the university, but I take it very seriously and I keep all my records. I have them from five years back, and I would be very, very upset if the dean - it's a political science class - if the dean of arts and sciences did something with a student and didn't call me and say, well, was this student in class? So, I understand. I understand now that there should have been more done, and so no, I did not have a chance. The information that came to me as I stated to the committee was that at some point Craig said to me, you know, after determining it, B&E thinks, after looking at the records, she has a degree based on all they could find. They couldn't find everything. You know, ties go to the student, that sort of thing.

I said, guys, just make sure it's right and that was it. I, again, should have just kept the immediate staff out of there altogether, because it ultimately ended up in B&E, but I never had a chance to say, "Hold on, let me review." And maybe I should have. Maybe I should have said, "What did you base this on?" But then I would have been criticized for inserting myself in an academic matter as a non-academic president, and I was trying to avoid doing that.

MILLER: So let me get this straight. When they told you what the outcome was, you didn't get the details down to the level of knowing that they sat there, and after they decided what they were going to do, they had to make up grades and classes?

GARRISON: No, and it wasn't even they telling me. It wasn't they called me in with all the decision makers and said here's what we've determined. It was Craig saying here's what was reported back to us from B&E and from the provost.

MILLER: It has been a little difficult for some people to understand when they hear you say, "I take full responsibility; I'm responsible for this" - it's been a little difficult for people to see what that responsibility means because people did sit in a room and make up data, which is intrinsically wrong, whether your discipline is newspaper, poli-sci, biology ...

GARRISON: Agreed.

MILLER: So, a provost and a dean have lost their administrative posts, but there were other people in that room who did not jump up and say, "We don't do this." What happens to them?

GARRISON: Well, that's something we continue - I continue - that's my evaluation to make in coordination with the board and we continue to look at what those personnel decisions might be. And we're going to handle them as personnel decisions. We don't talk publicly about personnel decisions because they're personnel decisions. But again, there were some mistakes made. I wish those individuals weren't in the room. The report clearly states they were not decision makers. But they were in the room. In the room is bad enough. We shouldn't have had them in the room. I didn't direct them to be in the room. I didn't talk - but that's no excuse. I've got to take responsibility for their presence and any perceived influence they might have had. But again, without saying to anyone directly or indirectly, "Hey, we'd like to go a certain way," you've got at some point, you've got to assume that people are going to make the right decision without having to be told. But that doesn't always happen.

HAUGHT: Is it yet known who actually wrote the fake grades on a piece of paper?

GARRISON: I believe the panel's report indicates that that was done, or approved by the dean. That's my recollection only based on the panel's report.

HAUGHT: Does that mean the dean sat down with a pen and did it himself?

GARRISON: I don't know. I mean I really don't know. I didn't talk to the dean about it. It indicates in the panel's report the dean signed off on the -

HAUGHT: OK - so at this point, nobody knows who wrote in the grades, really?

GARRISON: It was done in B&E. I don't know the exact individual, whether it was the current head of the MBA program or the assistant dean for academics, who is Cy Logar, or whether it was Dean [Stephen] Sears himself, but it was somebody in B&E.

MILLER: Do you want to talk about the [Bob] Huggins contract?

GARRISON: Sure.

MILLER: Is that a gimmick to distract people?

GARRISON: No. Absolutely not. You know I was charged from my board back in January to get his current contract signed. I think it's a bad practice - I mean just, for the record - I think it's a very bad practice to announce that coaches are going to be somewhere and not have a contract signed. And my goal was to try and get the contract he coached under this year actually signed. It did not seem like an unusual or untoward thing to do. It seemed like good business practice after the fact.

During those discussions we talked with the coach and his representatives about their desires, and that was January and the season was still going on. He said wait until after the season. Talked to the athletic director about it and we all agreed that after this season that Coach Huggins was good for WVU and WVU liked having him here. Everybody was happy, that once we got this original contract signed, could we get a longer-term contract signed? And those discussions just were ongoing. They've been going on for over a month.

And uh, you know, anybody who has dealt with coaches' contracts knows that when you have an opportunity to get it signed you get it signed. His agent was in town for the basketball dinner. Everything came together, and we were able to conclude the contract, and I wanted to have it signed. I don't like this "we've come to a mutual understanding and we'll get it signed in six months." It's just not a good business practice. I wanted to get him all wrapped up. We got him all wrapped up. It's not a gimmick in any way. There are other business things I've been working on at the university, have been working on for a couple months or several months, as in this one, and that's what happened.

MILLER: What if some of his old problems resurface and he's got an 11-year contract?

GARRISON: There are provisions under the contract that contemplate when a coach - when this coach - could be asked to step down. I don't anticipate any of those things happening. But we are protected under the contract in that regard. I think the coach recognizes his responsibility to the university. I take that responsibility very seriously, both on my behalf and everybody who ultimately reports into me.

MILLER: So you thought that out, is what you're saying?

GARRISON: There are provisions under the contract that contemplate dismissal for a certain type of behavior and I think it contemplates if someone is not a good representative of the university. I've seen nothing from Coach Huggins to make me believe that he is going to be anything but an exemplary representative of the university. I think he showed that this year.

MILLER: There's a very widespread belief that WVU is for a certain little clique, a certain little coterie who have connections to the governor, and if you're not with the governor then there is no place at WVU. It's all, you might as well not have a faculty senate vote. It's widespread and it's damaging. So, if the solution is not for you to resign, then how does WVU rise above this?

GARRISON: Well first of all, let me address that widespread belief, based on what I don't know.

MILLER: Do you want me to list what it's based on?

GARRISON: You could tell me -

MILLER: The membership of the Board of Governors which includes old friends of yours, acquaintances of mine, the connection of Mylan, your previous employer -

GARRISON: Mylan was not, whoa, whoa -

MILLER: Client, I'm sorry.

GARRISON: Client, yeah.

MILLER: Your previous client. And to the governor, the entire Heather Bresch affair.

GARRISON: Mmm hmmm.

MILLER: The allegations of a tainted search process. All these things have been building over a long period of time. So I'm not just making up that it's widespread distrust.

GARRISON: I understand. Let's talk about that.

When I hear the suggestion that I am somehow part of an in crowd, or the advantaged crowd, nothing can be further from the truth. You know personally, but I'll say it since the group's here, I didn't grow up that way. I came to WVU and ultimately left there as a first-generation college graduate. I worked my way through school. I worked very hard for these degrees. And my wife did as well. Neither of us were advantaged. Neither of us had parents who were involved in politics or business or anything like that. I take great offense to it, quite frankly, because that's not how I grew up. That's not who I am. That's not what drives me every day. That's not why I was interested in taking this job.

I was interested in taking this job because I believed the university before this had operated in just the way you described. For a certain group, and hadn't been open to everyone. I think it needs to be open to everyone. We've opened the house, to people who have never been to that house before. I've been more accessible than presidents have been in the past. We have taken great efforts to reach out and get around the state and listen and talk to anyone who cares to listen and talk to me.

Do I have acquaintances and friends that happen to know the governor, who might be on the board? Yes, and I'm never going to run away from that. Does that mean that I change my view of how the university should be run? Absolutely not. I still feel the very same way that I felt when I graduated from there, that it's everybody's university. My argument is, why is it certain people's university? Or why is their claim to the university any more important than anybody else's claim to the university? I don't believe that. I believe everybody has the same claim to the university. And I feel very strongly about that.

HAUGHT: When you say WVU previously had power cliques, do you mean under [Former President David] Hardesty?

GARRISON: Nah - I just believe that since I've been in as president - and the reason I say this is because people have said it to me - they've said, "Boy, I've never been invited to the president's house." And you know who these people are? People on classified staff, people who plant the flowers on campus, people with DPS [Department of Public Safety], regular people around the community who said, "Boy, we knew this house was always up here, but we never had a chance to come and celebrate or come to a cookout or anything like that." Now that may seem trite. That may seem trivial. But I don't think it is. When I talk to and when I hear from them, it means something to them. And the university means something to everybody. I was never part of the group that was involved with the university. I wanted to be. As a graduate I was very proud to be. I can tell you I feel like the university is more inclusive now than it has ever been before.

MILLER: So, how do you undo this perception that everybody thinks that it's just Team Manchin?

GARRISON: Try me. I mean that's the one thing I have to say to people. Try me. Talk to the people who have worked with me, who work for me, who work for me being president. Talk to the people who have worked with me since that time and ask them whether we've been inclusive.

Ask them if we had to pick up the phone and call the governor before we did something. The answer to that is no. We made decisions on our own to the best of our ability.

They need to reach out. I'm reaching out to people. A lot of those people who have worked with us will tell you - I feel very confident about it - they will tell you - ask the constituency reps on the Board of Governors. Ask Steve Kite. Ask Jason Parsons. Ask Paul Martinelli, who represent the faculty, the students and the staff. Ask them how I've been to work with. And ask them in comparison to how it has been in the past. Just ask them.

I don't think there's any other way you can do it except do it every day and keep it open and accessible and let people know by your actions how you feel about the university. And that's how I intend to run the university in a very open and accessible way.

HAUGHT: One more thing, last October, when the degree was being granted, you had no personal dialogue with Gov. Manchin or anyone on his staff?

GARRISON: I did not. I did not.

NETT: I wanted to ask about the faculty. There's obviously a lot of hard feelings stemming from your provisional appointment. Do you have any plans to bridge that gap?

GARRISON: Same plans as I had coming in the door. Just continue to work with faculty. It was the first thing I did when I came in the door.

You might follow up with that and say, "Well, are you back where you started from?" In some ways, maybe we are. If so, that's just the challenge we face. We have to reach out, continue to reach out.

What has been striking to me is a number of folks who have been very negative about me as president have never - I've made an attempt to work with everyone - have never made an attempt to say, "Well, let's at least see if he feels the same way we do about certain issues." You can only work with people who are willing to work with you, but there are a number of faculty who are willing to work with me.

For instance, I'll give you a for instance. We're going to have a search for a new provost. My inclination is I reach right out to the faculty senate chair about what his thoughts would be on behalf of the faculty. I intend to make that search committee have a majority of academics on it. They would choose the provost. Now, we'll have a few other individuals on there, but I want their recommendations in terms of who they would like on that search committee throughout the faculty. It's going to be a national search. I want the provost to be the best provost we can find. I have no preconceived notions, except that it should be a national search. And once we talk with search consultants, I'm even very willing to look at a salary for this person that is more than the president's salary, as your chief academic officer. That's how important the position is.

NETT: Do you think it's going to be difficult for some of these faculty members?

GARRISON: I think it's always difficult. I mean I think that's the nature of a public job. Any job. The governor. Senator. City manager, whatever the case may be. You have a lot of constituencies that you have to respond to and listen to. I have a number of them. I have the board. I have faculty. I have staff. I have students. I have alumni. I have people who are donors. I have the citizens of West Virginia because we are a land grant university. You've got to work to blend all these opinions and try and find the areas where people agree upon and move forward on those and try and eliminate some of the disagreements. Yes, it's a challenge, but it's always going to be a challenge. With public controversies or not, you're going to have that challenge to lead by building consensus among the constituency groups.

NETT: What about academics? There's been talk that a lot of people have decided not to go to WVU -

GARRISON: I just answered that question. I told you we're up 480 versus this time last year.

NETT: I mean faculty and researchers.

GARRISON: Oh, I don't think that's the case at all. I'm sorry. I misunderstood your question. In June, we're going to bring to the board as aggressive and perhaps more aggressive pay increase for staff and for faculty than we pushed for in September. It will get us closer to our peers. I would submit that if we're not having as much success as we want in recruiting faculty and staff, it's because our pay scale needs to be more competitive. That's what we're working on.

HAUGHT: The provost is going back to $200,000 professor salary, and the dean is going back to $145,000. Is that normal professor pay up there?

GARRISON: For a dean and for a provost -

HAUGHT: No, they're just plain professors now.

GARRISON: They have tenure and they have contracts that were agreed to prior to my time. That is not normal professor salary. The dean, both of them go back because of tenure. No, that's not. If I attempted to invade the province of tenure, I'd have an outcry from the academic side of the house.

HAUGHT: Are all tenured professors over $100,000 now?

GARRISON: I don't know. I can't answer that. I would assume that the average may be at a hundred - but I don't know. I don't want to answer it without knowing the facts. I do not know the facts on that when you talk about all the tenured professors.

MILLER: OK, anything else?

GARRISON: Let me just, if I could add one thing. You talk about Huggins. I've stated where we were and we worked on it. There seems to be some attempt or some suggestion that what happened with Rich Rodriguez somehow is something this administration did wrong. And uh, that is absolutely untrue. And I could not be more opposed to that sentiment. What we had is a high-profile coach who chose to take a job somewhere else and determined that he did not want to live up to what he agreed to under his contract. Period. Maybe there are those who think the university should have done anything it could have done to keep him there, but the facts bear themselves out that the university did a whole lot, both before I came on board and when I was on board. I spent as much time on trying to make sure things were being done the right way as I did on any other issue at WVU, and we worked very hard on it. For folks who try to join that up to this, it's just a fallacy.

WHITE: Could you mention, Mike, real quick, the report that [Athletic Director] Ed Pastilong was kinda marginalized in that decision about Huggins?

GARRISON: He wasn't. I spent a lot of time with the director. I spend a lot of time with the director. I will admit that I want to be more involved with knowing what the contracts are for a couple reasons.

One, I think you ought to have a signed contract when you announce you have a coach. I think that's a good business practice. I'm not ashamed of feeling that way or trying to be involved with it.

Two, you know a lot of the coaches talk to me about how they're doing. I have relationships with them. But I always refer back to the athletic director. Sometimes, we agree. Sometimes, we don't agree. His experience is something that is invaluable to me. I rely upon his experience. We don't publicize it all the time.

You know, during the coaching search, I relied upon Ed and he's very valuable. So, I just think that those are things that aren't true and that got caught up in this other issue.

We wouldn't have him there for the next two years and a couple years as emeritus if I didn't feel like I needed him and couldn't rely upon him. So I feel very strongly about the relationship and encourage you to ask him how he feels.

MILLER: Thank you.

GARRISON: OK, thanks.